Jill Rummages Among Her Books in 2023 - Part Four

Outstanding Titles Read Thus Far (As of Sept 4, Labor Day 2023)

A History of Reading (1996)
Stories of Books and Libraries (2022)
The Mountain in the Sea (2022)
Nettle and Bone (2023)
The Lost Art of Reading: Books and Resistance in a Troubled Time (2018)
The Original Bambi (2022)

As a quick update as to why I’m putting these titles here and not listing the whole of what I have read over the past 8 months, those half-dozen are books that have left some sort of long-lasting mark in my brain, something that the brain somehow keeps returning to. I’ve read other stuff and enjoyed so much of it, but the above titles have continued to rattle around in my brain in some form or another. Think of them as recommendations or as conversation-starters.

Revisiting as of September 6, 2023

Novel Houses by Christina Hardyment (which is leading me to look more seriously at reading works by Vita Sackville-West)
The Pleasures of Reading in an Age of Distraction by Alan Jones

(I’ve done a fair amount of re-reading this year. Mostly revisiting stuff from my formative years.)

Currently reading as of September 6, 2023

The Man Born to be King by Dorothy Sayers
The Fine Art of Invisible Detection by Robert Goddard

The other thing that I have in my head has to do with threads or themes – commonalities that emerge from the variety of titles read that were not anticipated in advance. Across the past 8 months these have been:

–Reading as an activity
–Man as Just-One-More-Species in the Ecosystem
–Adapting original source materials into new and various forms

Happy New Thread!

Happy New thread!

Happy new thread from me, also.

Party in Jill's new thread!

Happy new thread! I need to read Nettle and bone.

Okay, this may or may not be a sign of obsessive behavior, but it is more than possible that there are complete sets of Jane Austen's six novels in every room of my house, excepting the bathroom and kitchen. (There are no books in the bathroom whatsoever and the kitchen only holds cookbooks which look all the worse for the wear and tear of usage.) There are also ebooks of her novels on my Kindle although I may be missing Northanger Abbey in that specific setting. (That's my least favorite Austen novel...)

Is it time for me to write to Dear Abby?

>1 jillmwo: Oh, I've wanted to read A Man Born to be King for a long time, but when I looked for it the price was out of my range. Maybe I should look again.

>7 jillmwo: Do you have the cookbooks inspired by Jane Austen in your kitchen? It seems there are a lot of them. I hate to think of your kitchen feeling left out.

So funny. Northanger Abbey is my favorite of Austin's, although I haven't read the other books since I was in my twenties and had kneejerk reactions. I recently acquired them again to see if my more "mature" reading self might appreciate them better.

>8 MrsLee: I read all six Austen's novels when I was in my mid-twenties. I loved two, liked one, and detested three. I've reread the three I enjoy a number of times, but I have a nice set of all six in case I'm tempted to try the Terrible Trio again.

>8 MrsLee: I know you have a Kindle. May I ask why you don't borrow ebooks from your library? It's a very painless (and might I add free) process. And it's so easy to return things that aren't to your taste without having paid for them.

>7 jillmwo:
I really enjoyed Northanger Abbey.

In answer to your question: Yes!

…but so what?

>10 clamairy: Too damn lazy to figure out how. I might do that now that I have to pinch my pennies though. The other reason is that I own 837 books on my Kindle at present, with probably 650 minimum not read. Not to mention all the books in my house which are unread. I'm not really hurting for reading material. :D

On that particular book, I wanted a paper (preferably hardcover) when I was originally pricing it. Now I'm not sure I care what version, but also my desire has slackened.

>8 MrsLee: >10 clamairy: and >12 MrsLee: Part of the challenge is that the book itself, The Man Born To Be King has been out of print for a number of years. The version I'm looking at came out in January of this year and because it is a somewhat scholarly annotated edition from an academic press, it is more expensive than a lot of other books. That may be due in part to Sayers' literary estate but I don't know that for sure. (At any rate, they've priced the paperback and the Kindle edition at nearly the same dollar amount.) The selling point appears to be its potential for theater studies as well as literary studies.

I had once had a paperback edition of this years ago but as is so frequently the case, I had passed that copy on. Like you, MrsLee , I was pleased to see it back in print. The woman who edited this did her PhD at the University of St. Andrew in Scotland and her doctoral thesis had to do with these radio plays. In the meantime, I understand that YouTube has video recordings from 1967 if that helps, although I think the editor indicated that those were abridged.

Unrelated to above discussion of Sayers, do we know anyone with three million pounds (BPS) to spare? John Le Carre is putting his hide-away home on the market. (https://robbreport.com/shelter/celebrity-homes/john-le-carre-tregiffian-cottage-1234892288/). It's described as a cliffside English cottage - and it apparently comes with a "safe room", an indoor swimming pool, and a library with floor to ceiling bookcases...

>13 jillmwo: I will look for the work on YouTube, to see if I'm still interested in it. Thanks!

>14 jillmwo:
Strictly speaking it is his estate that is selling the house. Le Carré (David Cornwell) died on 12 Dec 2020. His sister, Charlotte Cornwell, died on 16 Jan 2021. His wife, Jane Cornwell, died on 27 Feb 2021.
His son, Nick Cornwell (Nick Harkaway), moved into the family home to complete and edit his father’s final manuscript and clear out the house after having lost his father, aunt and mother within just over two months.

As if that wasn’t enough, on May 31 2022, Nick lost his brother, Timothy Cornwell.

>16 pgmcc: That is very sad. I had not made the connection between Nick Harkaway and Le Carré.

A quote or two from David L. Ulin's The Lost Art of Reading: How do things stick to us in a culture where information and ideas flare up so quickly that we have no time to assess one before another takes its place? My paraphrase or take-away would be something about the need to absorb a bit more slowly the value or meaning of a particular work.

Brief follow-up quote: books insist we take the opposite position, that we immerse, slow down

Ulin's essay is concerned with not just the distraction due to the bombardment of social media quick takes, but also with the need to allow truly immersive engagement with a book in order to get the full value of reading. In the 2018 updated edition, he talks about the impact of reading in allowing us to our own sense of what it is we think and believe in. (Key in the political context of that specific administration.)

FWIW, Ulin's writing originally appeared as an essay in the LA Times and he has amplified on his thinking in the updated 2018 edition.

The book's subtitle in 2010 was Why Books Matter in a Distracted Time; in 2018, the book's subtitle was changed to Books and Resistance in a Troubled Time.

From my perspective the difference in meaning of the two subtitles has to do with an initial idea that we need to combat the acceleration of society via such things as social media and other online behavior that may minimize our opportunity to evaluate the world and his subsequent point that we need to recognize that allowing ourselves the space to read deeply allows us to be less frequently swayed by external forces. We have time and need to take the time to connect with what foregoing generations thought while marking for those following after what it is that the current generation saw as being important. (Admittedly, that's a really, really clunky sentence and it may not be clear. But Ulin was very concerned that we were in danger of devaluing the experience of reading a book and all that it had to tell us.

Question again for those lurking who may do a lot of audio-books. In the case of something like Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norell, a book that had lots of foot-of-the-page content in the form of footnotes, how did the various footnotes get handled in the audio book environment? Does anyone have a memory?

>19 jillmwo: Footnotes... oof! I can't even imagine keeping track during an audio version of House of Leaves!!

>14 jillmwo: We could all chip in and then hold meetups there . . .

>19 jillmwo: That's a great question. I've listened to a lot of audio books and none with obvious footnotes. Now I'm curious for the answer too.

Another lengthy stream of consciousness post (apologies in advance)...

I don’t know whether to call my current state one of distraction or one of useful thought. I have been trying to frame a brief article on the topic of annotated editions, but I also have (or had) three different books of fiction going and that never turns out well for me. I’m one of those types that should only read two books at a time AT MOST. (Frankly reading one at a time in linear fashion is the best approach.) And I was keeping three different notebooks with disorganized observations. lists,and other reminders scribbled in each.

I have been looking at The Annotated Hunting of the Snark, The Annotated Mrs. Dalloway, and the The Man Born to Be King for the article and every time I go to write down an observation about how annotated editions get handled, I realize again how very labor-intensive it must be to do one of these. The scholar doing the annotations, working out what elements should be explained, the editor helping to prep the manuscript and keep the length of the annotations in check, the production editor whose job it is to do the page layout with the primary text, marginal annotations, illustrations, and footnotes presented in a meaningful way, and the publisher who has to ensure that the thing is still affordable by the consumer.

As an example, in the Mrs Dalloway book, on page 42, there is a sentence about sitting on a bench in Regents Park with a view of dun-colored necks of animals over a fence separating the park from the zoo. The word Zoo is shown with a number #96. The actual annotation is found on the top of page 43, but you only get a bare paragraph of explanation there because a very large image of an elephant in the Regents Park Zoo from the 1920s takes up the bottom of the page. The rest of the annotation is therefore carried over to the top of page 44.

The Zoo is only a bit of visual detail but the scholar-editor creating the annotations wants to share an anecdote having to do with Charles Darwin and in passing notes that Charles Darwin will later be referenced in the novel as having had a relationship with one of Mrs. Dalloway’s relatives. But it is at times like this that one really wonders who is running the ship. The photo on page 43 is of an elephant – not a dun colored animal whose neck you can see stretched over the fence palings. The annotation is chiefly to do with Darwin who himself had ties to the Zoo. Personally, I would suggest to you that no reader should be left with the impression that the Zoo was top of mind for Virginia Woolf as she was writing this relatively short novel. I mean, this strikes me as padding.

But I will put that aside and simply refer you to a delightful YouTube video from a conference where a scholar is talking about Martin Gardner and what he did for the general public with his best selling annotated editions beginning in 1960. (IMHO, worth the viewing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcjoYvyYkvo&t=2s)

My bigger error in judgment was trying to read three different novels, none of which I was probably in the most receptive mood for. The first was The Fine Art of Invisible Detection by Robert Goddard and I don’t think I was the ideal reader for it. There’s an interesting conspiracy of silence playing a role in the narrative and, even as the bodies mount up, it’s less about solving the crime of murder than it is about “other stuff”. I don’t want to give away much more than that about the plot. If I were to answer the four questions that float around here, I would do so as follows:

1. Would I recommend this book? Yes, it was fun. Not necessarily at the top of my best-of-2023 list, but I can see the book’s appeal.

2. If so, to whom? Primarily to the reader who enjoys a good suspense thriller. Extra points allowed for the off-beat international locale of Iceland that gets included.

3. Would I read another by the same author? Quite possibly. I’m not quite sure of his character development skills.

4. What has it moved me to do? Well, it hasn’t persuaded me to become a professional private eye, but neither have any of Agatha Christie’s novels. So I don't think the problem lies with these authors.

For a different kind of suspense thriller, one can always go back to Mignon Eberhart. From This Dark Stairway features Miss Sarah Keate as night supervisor in a hospital during the 1930s. Eberhart does not move things along anywhere near as rapidly as Goddard does in his book and all of the action takes place inside the hospital. It’s a hot July and there’s no air-conditioning so the patients are as fractious as the staff. The local police on the case are on the dim side, but someone manages to call in a detective who knows Nurse Keate from previous encounters in crime-solving. Eberhart's chapters are long (20-30 pages each), which plays against reading her at bedtime, but she does communicate long sticky nights, with the result that when a bug flies into the poor nurse's hair and she screams, so did I. If I have a beef, it's that the female patients are all spoiled rich brats. As Nurse Keate notes, the problem with being a nurse is that rather than soothing one's patients, one frequently wants to smack them instead! (For the record, the Bison Books imprint of the University of Nebraska Press has brought back five of the Eberhart novels in 2023. So somebody besides me must be reading them.)

Moving on to a more-Jill’s-speed kind of mystery, there is Villainy at Vespers. The murderer has left a dead body in the Church in a way that is most disturbing, both to a misfit vicar and to the overworked local authorities. The Black Arts may or may not be involved, but this is Cornwall just at the end of the Second World War so there are burglars and colorful eccentrics in abundance. Tourists are still a bit thin on the ground; however, a sensible inspector who has come with his family for a bit of a holiday is roped into the investigation through sympathy with his local counterpart. Not nearly as many bodies in this novel as in The Fine Art of Invisible Detection, but there is more attention given over to creating distinctive voices.

For something completely different, try The Starmen by Leigh Brackett. Available for free on Project Gutenberg, this is definitely a fun space opera. The women are strong and beautiful and the men are prone to jealousy and fisticuffs.

Finally, I am expecting a graphic novel of Murder on the Orient Express today. I want to see how the artist/writer migrates the novel’s careful structure in that context. Neither of the two movie adaptations (1974 and 2017) followed that structure very closely and dialogue got changed quite a bit depending on which Hollywood talent was playing a particular character.

Looking ahead, it's a week of writing and deadlines.

Edited to put a sentence into its proper paragraph and context. Can't imagine how I botched up the placement before. Fix wonky touchstone. Original post dated September 17, 11:29 a.m.

>23 jillmwo:
I liked your post a lot. You must be pleased about the elephant on page 42, even if it did disturb the footnotes.

Posting just because I love to say it aloud:

They roused him with muffins—they roused him with ice—
They roused him with mustard and cress—
They roused him with jam and judicious advice—
They set him conundrums to guess.

The Baker's Fit, The Hunting of the Snark

I cannot vouch for this in any way as I have not read it nor even flipped through any available sample, but for the J.R.R. Tolkien enthusiast or completist, Princeton University Press is currently spotlighting this book entitled The Worlds of J.R.R. Tolkien by John Garth.

From that page:

Garth identifies the locales that served as the basis for Hobbiton, the elven valley of Rivendell, the Glittering Caves of Helm’s Deep, and many other settings in Middle-earth, from mountains and forests to rivers, lakes, and shorelands. He reveals the rich interplay between Tolkien’s personal travels, his wide reading, and his deep scholarship as an Oxford don. Garth draws on his profound knowledge of Tolkien’s life and work to shed light on the extraordinary processes of invention behind Tolkien’s works of fantasy. He also debunks popular misconceptions about the inspirations for Middle-earth and puts forward strong new claims of his own.

The original pub date for that book was back in 2020. So has anyone here in the Pub already talked about this one?

>26 jillmwo: Was Tolkien well traveled? I thought he was a stay-at-home in England kind of guy, except for the war. I have never read a full biography on him though.

>27 MrsLee:. Not in the "well-traveled tourist" or "world-famous author" sense. He was in continental Europe as a soldier in World War I, but those were battles rather than "visits". He didn't travel extensively even after he became famous as an author and/or as a recognized Oxford scholar. John Garth (the author) wrote Tolkien and the Great War which touches on some of the places he saw during the War.

One of the book groups of which I am a part is thinking about doing a graphic novel next. I'm not actively AGAINST it, but it is a very different means of approaching and engaging with content.

I was looking at the Murder on the Orient Express graphic novel this morning and I briefly compared Chapter One in the graphic novel to the same chapter in the printed text. The graphic artist handled it in a very interesting way -- focusing only on the visual "real life" elements of the action in that chapter -- no thought balloons, for example. Either spoken dialogue or none at all. Indeed one of the things that most impressed my husband when he was looking at the same graphic novel was a particularly two to four page spread where there was no dialogue at all. Information reached the reader through what a specific panel showed or the way in which the panels were sequenced. Very interesting to analyze. How did the artist come to the conclusion that this was the best way of doing it? At any rate, I'm surprised at just how well the graphic novel is working. There are changes from the original work, but by-and-large, they don't detract.

Note that the touchstone above goes to the wrong listing of the graphic novel. in part that is because William Morrow is re-using the ISBN from an old mass-market paperback for the graphic novel done by Bob Al-Greene. The author touchstone doesn't work either. (AARRGH!)

Here is the correct work page: https://www.librarything.com/work/2742/249428758

>29 jillmwo: Very cool. I still need to watch the most recent movie version and re-read the book. What's your thoughts on the upcoming movie?

>26 jillmwo: I have this! I am ashamed to say I haven't read it yet though ...

>30 Karlstar: Upcoming? Are they making an animated one? The one with Kenneth Branagh was great.

>32 clamairy: Sorry, often my messages are lacking some context, or I talk about two things in the same sentence. I was referring to the upcoming 'A Haunting in Venice'.

Actually >32 clamairy: and >33 Karlstar:, I've not yet seen the latest (Branagh-directed) Haunting in Venice which has opened in theatres. All the promotional news stories say it is doing well in terms of box office sales. However, the same promotional folks suggested that there were significant 'horror' elements to it. A friend of mine who moonlights as an usher at a movie theater told me that particular strategy might be backfiring because he saw a group of teenage girls leave mid-way through because they'd so clearly expected something much gorier and more horrific. I will wait until I can watch it on one of the streaming services.

As a sidenote, Amazon Prime has been offering me the option of renting Barbie but the price to view it at home is a whoppin' $24 for a 48 hour window. (I think not, gentlemen!)

In terms of reading (and this has been a week of research and writing for freelance), I've been reading The Edwardians because I think it was Sakerfalcon who told me it was good. I also occasionally dip into the whole Knole and the Sackvilles as I read the novel.

As for the graphic novel edition of Murder on the Orient Express, it's been interesting to see what gets changed and what doesn't. More investigation on the graphic novel led me to order George Takei's They Called Us Enemy which is entirely done in black and white which I hadn't known. And once I had read the news story about the teacher getting fired in Texas over the graphic novel version of The Diary of Anne Frank, I ordered that one as well (*). I'm not even a big fan of graphic novels, but I feel as if I need to understand them a bit more. One can't just sniff disdainfully on the assumption that they're unfit reading material.

And >31 Sakerfalcon:, when you get around to reading it, do let us know whether you enjoyed it. It took me a decade before I got around to reading Garth's Tolkien and the Great War but it was certainly a worthwhile and interesting read.

(*) Edited to note that there must be a run on orders for that title because Amazon says it can't get one to me for at least three weeks! I ended up cancelling the order.

>34 jillmwo:
By coinkidink I bought a copy of Haunting in Venice at Chicago airport on Saturday. It was not a title I was familiar with until my wife said it is also known as Halloween Party. I take the book was on sale as the movie tie-in. I was not aware of the movie before it was mentioned in this thread.

>34 jillmwo: Wow, that's a lot of graphic novels! I don't generally buy them, though I have read a few on my tablet. It's not ideal.

>35 pgmcc: I'm very confused. I read Halloween Party a few years ago, and it does not take place in Venice. I haven't read that many Christie books, but this was my least favorite.

>36 clamairy:
I am going by my wife's say so, but also, Touchstones brought up "Halloween Party" when I entered Haunting in Venice in square brackets.

Kevin Branagh is no great adherer to the book. His Murder on The Orient Express has a snow covered mountain range in the Russian Steppes.



This is the cover of the book I bought. It has the words, "Formerly published as Hallowe'en Party". It also has an image of a skull that may present more evidence to Jill's point of the horror elements of the story being emphasised, or totally made up.

The expression, "There is many a slip between the cup and the lip", comes to mind. I would suggest there is many a slip between the book and the movie.

>37 pgmcc: Well, hopefully he'll spice it up a bit. I will still wait to stream it. I was very unimpressed with his movie version of Death on the Nile.

>38 clamairy:
I felt the same.

>34 jillmwo: >37 pgmcc: It seemed to me that they are playing up the 'horror' aspect of the new movie because it is that time of year. I'll likely wait until it comes out on streaming, we were only semi-interested in going to see it at the movies. I enjoyed Death on the Nile at the movies, not so much for the plot, but the scenery was amazing.

>40 Karlstar:. Agree that it's a marketing ploy. I've not particularly liked any of Branagh's Poirot movies; in my view, they're about on par with those with Peter Ustinov playing Poirot. While the mannerisms may be in place, neither male actor satisfies the correct picture of the little Belgian detective. So like you, I'll wait to see it on streaming. (Actually, what I've liked in Branagh's versions has been some of the camera work involving the use of windows in and out of a physical space. And by contrast some of the sweeping landscape shots.)

One note having to do with graphic novels. I realized yesterday what an impact a movie adaptation can have on one's memory of specific details. Murder on the Orient Express as a graphic novel has the advantage of maximizing the size of certain maps, diagrams, etc. of where people are at any given time in relation to others. One such diagram of the assigned sleeping compartments listed a name that I was sure was wrong. It showed Masterman in the same compartment with Foscarelli, and I thought to myself, why would the graphic novel change the name of the dead man's valet. I was sure that the valet's name was Beddoes. Well, in the 1974 movie version where Sir John Gielgud plays the role, the name of the valet was Beddoes. But in the book (and I've checked a variety of source material), the assigned name was indeed Masterman. So the change was originally made for the movie and all these years, I'd just taken it for granted that the *right* name was Beddoes. For whatever reason and I've re-visited the book multiple times, that particular detail in the authoritative text just completely escaped me.

So movies may have a remarkable impact on our recollection of details. I have to credit the graphic novel with hitting me upside the head with a 2x4 to get me to realize that...

>36 clamairy:. I canceled the order for the Anne Frank graphic novel adaptation. It was going to take weeks and weeks to get here. I may still get it but I tend to be an impatient soul and wasn't in the mood to tie up my thought processes waiting for the print version to arrive. And I agree that renaming Halloween Party to shift Branagh's movie-mystery to Carnival time in Venice was a silly thing to do. Wilkie Collins did have a nice ghost story / mystery with a similar title to Branagh's which I had thought he was actually doing; I was disappointed when I realized it was a remake of Christie's novel and mentally shrugged off following any more of the promotional info. And you're right -- it's not one of her best.

>37 pgmcc:. Your wife is right.

>41 jillmwo:
It is not one of my wife’s favourites, so she is right in more than one sense.

I watched an older movie of Halloween Party and while not great, I thought the creepiness of the children's party was particularly creepy. I read the book and while not a favorite, I thought it an OK read. Now that's me speaking from memory, I didn't check my review here.

ETA jillmwo there have been some truly fine graphic novels published. I read some of them years ago at the urging of my children, and while I would not prefer to have every book that way, when it is well done it can be effective.

>41 jillmwo:
I prefer the Ustinov movies to Branagh’s. Murder Under the Sun was particularly good, specifically for the interaction between Maggie Smith and Diana Rigg’s characters. They were both brilliant in that film. In fact they are great in all their roles.

I just read this article about A haunting in Venice/Halloween Party and it sounds like the movie is only very very loosely based on the book.
Why Agatha Christie’s mousetraps still beguile us, even if the films aren’t always killer

>45 Sakerfalcon: That was a great article from the Los Angeles Times. Enlightening.

>44 pgmcc: I agree that Diana Rigg and Maggie Smith were what made that particular Poirot movie most memorable. Although Roddy McDowall was fun as well.

It's not that I don't enjoy the Branagh movies or the Ustinov movies; they're fine for what they are. Even the Suchet version of Christie's Poirot stories made changes to the original source material.

The thing is (at least for me) that any adaptation makes me go back to the original source material to see more precisely what has changed. I firmly disagree with Branagh's positioning that Death on the Nile was primarily about lust. But sex sells movies and that's his thing. For me, the motivation operating in Death on the Nile (the book) has much more to do with a grasping sense of ownership and possession. I rather liked portions of his Murder on the Orient Express, but not all of the changes he made in it were necessary (except as marketing hooks).

The Ustinov movies were fun but (IMHO) Ustinov as an actor generally tends towards exaggeration. I'm thinking as well of the way he played Nero in Quo Vadis. Poirot as an individual character has his exaggerated foibles, yes, but he shouldn't be seen as totally off the wall (except to the English population who have awkwardly encountered an unfortunate lifeless body).

The other point I wanted to make has to do with Wilkie Collins who had a most enjoyable (short) novel The Haunted Hotel which is set in Venice and which really might have made a much better plot for Branagh to build on. But then he wouldn't have the marketing strength of the Christie / Poirot branding.

I am continuing with The Edwardians. I am continuing with Mammoths at the Gate. I am slowly working through a series of Ellery Queen short stories as well. Much depends on what else I've had to do that day. I have determined that my brain struggles with graphic novels. Interesting to talk over with the spouse, but my eyes migrate immediately to words in text blocks. I don't see the panels on the page the way my husband does.

Edited solely to fix a wonky touchstone.

As a quick follow up, I don't think graphic novels are necessarily efficient as a means of story telling.

>46 jillmwo:
I never got into graphic novels (GNs) but I know people who prefer them to regular text based novels.

At Phoenix Convention IX, one of the guests of honour was Bryan Talbot. He is a big name in GNs and lectures on the subject in an English university. I caught part of a two hour presentation he gave on graphic novel creation. It was a masterclass and I felt awed with his descriptions and demonstrations of different technics in developing a GN. I still do not feel inclined to read GNs but I respect the skill some people have in their production.

>48 pgmcc: That's where I am with it as well. It requires a great deal of skill to put the artwork together in a meaningful way w/in specific production constraints and like you, I admire that. My brain just isn't wired to receive the message delivered in such a format...

All that said, I do want to better understand what others find engaging about graphic novels.

>47 jillmwo: I agree with your opinion on graphic novels. The one I read most recently, The Mystery Knight, did a credible job portraying the novella of the same name, but just could not get across all the nuances of the plot nor was it really very good at helping to keep track of the characters. I liked it, but I liked the original much more.

>47 jillmwo: I can't imagine The Sandman, Maus, Persepolis or Watchmen in any other format than a graphic novel. The visuals are integral to the story. However, I don't think I would care for a story converted to a graphic novel from a traditional novel format. Like a condensed version, it wouldn't have the full tale as the author imagined.

>51 MrsLee: I do have a lovely graphic novel version of The Hobbit illustrated by David Wenzel that was a perfect introduction to Middle Earth for my son when he was young.

I went back to check and I read The Empress of Salt and Fortune in January of last year. I posted about it here in the pub. (See https://www.librarything.com/topic/338187#7726046). It was an excellent read – an unexpected treatment of a cold form of revenge and ensuring the accurate remembrance of events.

Well, this past week I read Mammoths at the Gate by the same author and it happened to be the right book at the right time. Just as with Empress of Salt and Fortune, this has a theme throughout about the critical importance of accurate recollection if one is to understand fully. Cleric Chih returns home to the Singing Hills monastery, a homecoming that both saddens even as there is the comfort of familiarity. Chih feels disoriented, not having considered that there might naturally be shifts during an extended absence. Their closest childhood friend is there but that individual too is different. The neixin in their aviary are agitated. And there are angry mammoths at the gate. How does one cope? One must listen respectfully to the tales that are shared.

This segment of Nghi Vo’s series of novellas carefully touches a sensitive nerve.

>53 jillmwo:
The Past is a foreign country and we do not live there anymore.

I have witnessed this phenomenon myself when returning to the haunts of my youth.

>54 pgmcc: Exactly. It's true in so many ways. We'd been talking on this thread yesterday about Death on the Nile. The ending of the Ustinov movie version has Poirot with the last line of the film quoting Moliere. "The great ambition of women is to inspire love."

That didn't sound quite right to me so I pulled my copy off the shelf last night to see what the real closing sentiment of DOTN was. The final point from Poirot (and my notes indicate that the same phrase recurs three times in the text of the book) is "The past is of no importance. It's the future that matters." DOTN is about the illusion of possession. People and things pass through our hands/lives (fairly or unfairly) so the only thing to do is to look ahead. There's a flavor of that in Mammoths at the Gate.

As to graphic novels, >48 pgmcc:, >50 Karlstar:, >51 MrsLee:, and >52 clamairy: I think I am enjoying the GN of Orient Express primarily because it's interesting to compare it with the original full text and consider how transforming it into a visual medium requires specific choices. I am not at all sure that I will be able to properly appreciate George Takei's They Call Us Enemy because the GN is the original framework for his message. I don't know if I'll "get it" and yet it's an original form of memoir with a story that deserves to be heard and received. (Again, shades of Mammoths at the Gate.)

>53 jillmwo: I seem to have missed out on Into the Riverlands somehow. So I must read that first.

>57 clamairy: Actually, you can read Mammoths at the Gate as a stand-alone. Doesn't depend on having read any of the previous novellas. (Although it might help a tad if you are familiar with Empress of Salt and Fortune because of what it teaches you about the Singing Hills and the neixin. ) This fourth segment is stronger than the second and third stories (libraryperilous had said this as well.)

>58 jillmwo: Yes, I read her thread. I also found the second book a bit of a disappointment. (Which is probably why I was not in a rush to read the third.) I might skip it then.

>59 clamairy: *thumbs up*

I have just finished reading The Edwardians -- quite the tale of social commentary. Still processing it, but on one level, certainly, my reaction was WOW. The scene of Sebastian and Anquetil chasing one another over rooftops until they perch on a peak of a roof and have an ultimately serious conversation...(quite memorable).

Maybe I need to stop reading literature from this period of history. It's breath-taking but also not helpful. (And I can't quite spell out what I mean by that just yet. As I said, it takes time to process.)

Also watched this video on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_Z5v6PmFFo) which is about Knole. (In the book, Sebastian's estate of Chevron is actually based on Knole.) At any rate, even without the sound on for the commentary, the visuals were stunning.

*sigh* I suppose that the good news is I made all of the different deadlines. I still feel somewhat dim about what's going on out there in the real world. (Why would anyone invite me to write about X topic? I'm not a freakin' expert! If I write something about that topic, that means I have to go out and do research and stuff.) OTOH, I suppose I should feel grateful that they remember my name sufficiently to think to reach out (and on some level, I honestly am grateful). It's really such a two-edged sword.

I'll likely write up the Edwardian book in the next day or two. I now have four books on my shelf having to do with Knole and that family. The others are books hfglen recommended Inheritance: The Story of Knole and the Sackvilles and The Disinherited: A Story of Family, Love, and Betrayal. (And all because Tolkien saddled the unpopular Lobelia with that particular surname...)

Meanwhile I suspect I may be in for another spell of desultory reading.

I realize this may be skirting good practice because it's political in nature and I likely ought not to even direct you to the URL. On the other hand, there's an Elephant. There's always an elephant.

https://twitter.com/mluckovichajc/status/1709622094810562613

>62 jillmwo: Bwahahaha.... Thank you for that.

The Edwardians

There are really only a handful of characters in this novel – Lucy, the Edwardian hostess who is also mother to Sebastian and Viola; Sebastian, the heir to an Earldom when he comes of age and whose views dominate the world he controles; Leonard Anquetil, the non-aristocratic celebrity, the realist and hardened Arctic explorer who has been invited to Lucy’s weekend house party at Chevron; Lady Roehampton – the society woman who makes the mistake of falling in love with the 19-year old Sebastian; Theresa Spedding, a doctor’s wife who longs to break through the invisible class wall and thereby join the rarified life of Chevron. Other female characters we see to a lesser extent are Viola, Sebastian’s sister and Phillida, for a time Sebastian’s girlfriend, and Margaret, the daughter of Lady Roehampton.

The thing of it is that The Edwardians is a wonderful read with thematic meaning on any number of levels. One can read it as a novel about women in the Edwardian Age and their lack of autonomy. (Alternatively, one can see it as an explanation of how aristocratic gentlemen come to see themselves as the center of the universe.) One can read it as a story of imprisonment – the harmful and invisible isolation felt when insulated from real life on the basis of social convention and elitist wealth. One can read it as a coming-of-age story. But over and over, as I read, I was wondering why the book had been allowed to fall out of print.

The Paris Review in a 2023 write-up characterized it as being a masterpiece that nobody ever reads. Even the introduction to the Virago edition I purchased second hand had something of a disdainful note to it when referring to the book’s literary standing. The Edwardians was a best-seller when it was initially published in 1930. The author herself apparently felt embarrassed by it later in life. She preferred to be known for her work in the arena of gardens at Knole or at Sissinghurst. And yet, the written prose is wonderful.

Given what I’ve read over the past year, my thinking was that one could read it as a precursor to The Dispossessed; the two books essentially are asking the same question – given the history of elite populations generally controlling the social order, what is the feasibility of building an equitable human society? Again, my question is why the book has fallen out of print. There’s no ebook available via Amazon (or any other provider). And yet, for me at least, I think this one must join the list of best books read thus far this year. Beautifully crafted, memorable characters, plenty of thematic meat to chew on… (Damn, it's another book I can't let go from the shelves...)

And while it appears here as something of a postscript, I can see from reading both The Annotated Mrs. Dalloway and The Edwardians why Virginia Woolf and Vita Sackville-West found each other to be congenial companions. Absolutely in sync.

>64 jillmwo: You made me look...there's an ebook of The Edwardians on Barnes and Noble. I just downloaded it.

>65 Marissa_Doyle: That is a very curious thing. Because when I went looking for a copy of The Edwardians on Amazon a few weeks back, there was no listing. However, when I grabbed the ISBN from the B&N site just now (seeing your post) and plugged it into the Amazon site, suddenly, there was both a print as well as an ebook available.

It's not impossible that I did something stupid in my initial search, but it seems odd. (I went over to ABE Books to unearth a second-hand copy.)

Whatever. I was wrong. The book does remain in print. Thank you, Marissa!

>66 jillmwo: You're welcome...and thank you for the BB. :)

>64 jillmwo: I'm glad you got so much out of The Edwardians! I enjoyed it a lot when I read it but your review makes me feel I should go back and reread it.

What am I Going To Read Next? Pulling Possibilities Off the Shelf

The artwork lured me into buying this Folio edition at some point in the past year: https://www.librarything.com/topic/338505 (Look at that page and you'll see that the photos of the artwork are really gorgeous.) I'm really kind of tempted to begin reading it.

I also have a copy of Uncle Silas and October is the ideal month of the year to read Victorian Gothic.

Which would be more Gothic? Vikings or ghastly relatives?

Also up for the possible next read is this one Under the Cover which talks about the creation, production and marketing of a particular novel. It makes clear what a collaborative effort book publishing is. Seems fairly readable; not the dense prose that I usually fear when I see as part of the marketing description the phrase "ethnographic study". This guy (an academic at Univ of Toronto) writes like a normal human being. (I also have the novel that it discusses -- Jarrettsville -- which is historical fiction.) A nice little reading project.

But Jane Austen's Wardrobe should be arriving later today. And Mansfield Park has been much on my mind of late. (For that matter, so has Louisa May Alcott. More on that later.)

(In the interests of full transparency, I admit that I'm totally lollygagging here thinking about TBR piles, leisure reading, and boxed deliveries, while the spouse is out in the kitchen throwing dinner into the crockpot.) I'm also thinking about "Best Of" selections since that time of year is within view. Thus far, I've had a comfortingly good year of books.

Updated to add that Three Twins at the Crater School has won the immediate afternoon reading slot. At least, in the first chapter, it's rather soothing.

>69 jillmwo: That Laxdaela Saga looks very interesting!

>69 jillmwo: Ooh! Is that a new book by Hilary Davidson?

Also, I sometimes feel like those of us who love Mansfield Park are in a very small minority...

>71 Marissa_Doyle: Yes, it arrived here yesterday still in its lovely shrink-wrap (unopened). I'm trying to do the marshmallow trick. I can open it now for immediate gratification or hand it to my spouse with the shrink-wrap untouched and tell him he's giving it to me for Christmas. The problem is there's something else I was going to tell him was to be a Christmas gift. I am torn...

And as to MP, we are indeed in a sad minority. There's so much one can do with it, and yet people get hung up on how problematic they find Fanny to be.

Also, I think you were one of the early people here in the Pub to talk about Three Twins at the Crater School. I'm 150 pages or so in and really liking it. (So thank you!)

>72 jillmwo:
Surely your husband would like to get you two presents for Christmas.

I started the first of the Crater School books but got interrupted. I must get back to it soon.

Finished Three Twins at the Crater School today and thoroughly enjoyed it. As others have said on the various threads, the action centers around a group of new arrivals at British girls' boarding school set on a funky kind of steampunk period in Mars history. There are aliens and nefarious entities of various sorts and nationalities, but even when I thought I had guessed where the action was headed, the author surprised me time and again. Lots of fun, lots of competent females (at a variety of ages). And wait 'til you get to the part with the airship! I also agree with Sakerfalcon when she said it was all about friendship. It really is. I am glad to hear a second installment is available.

So yes, pgmcc, it's worth re-visiting. If this is one that the rest of you have got sitting on a Kindle in a TBR queue or if you've included it on a wishlist, push it up to the top. I found it immensely cheering and rather encouraging as well.

>74 jillmwo: I really need to bump this one up my TBR!

>74 jillmwo: >75 libraryperilous: It is such a great read!

>76 Sakerfalcon: The question I have for you is whether he really captured for you (someone really familiar with the Chalet-school stories) the feel of those other books.

>75 libraryperilous: I think you'd probably enjoy it.

>73 pgmcc:, >74 jillmwo: You may be amused to hear that Chaz's contribution to the forthcoming Book View Cafe cookbook was written in the form of recipes by Mrs. Bailey, the cook at the Crater School.

>78 Marissa_Doyle:
Chaz is quite the gourmet.

>78 Marissa_Doyle: and >79 pgmcc: But is it a recipe for the honey cakes or for the cocoa? Come to think of it, is there any chance that it's a recipe for the mother's oatmeal with all the goodies in it? ( I know you aren't a big fan of raisins in one's morning porridge, Marissa, but perhaps one of the other added items was appealing.)

>80 jillmwo:
I had breakfast with Chaz one morning. At the time I did not know he was such a foodie, so I did not take any notice of what he was eating. He was very pleasant company that morning.

No recipes for honey cakes or cocoa, but one for Christmas Pudding and several others with Martian connections. Evidently persimmons and mushrooms do well on Mars.

>81 pgmcc: Okay, this is why we need to revisit the concerns over how modern behaviors are forgetting the needs of posterity. If you were a Victorian, you might well sit down every evening and write down a detailed account of what you did, who you breakfasted with, what you ate, what the other person ate, etc. Doing so, the Victorians bequeathed us an incredibly wealthy set of details about how life was lived both by the famous and the ordinary...I think all of us here in the Pub need to begin setting down such details when you dine with the rich and famous so that future generations will know these things. This Christmas, ask for a nice big leather notebook and some lovely sort of fountain pen so that you can help to bridge such an existing gap in corporate memory.

In the interests of transparency, I must confess I've been thinking to myself that I should be doing the same thing but have gotten no further it appears than have you. I have all of the necessary accoutrements for the activity but have found my life too dreadfully dull to want to set down details. But I'm trying to work my way out of the blue funk.

>82 Marissa_Doyle: Yum. A nice Christmas pudding would go well.

>83 jillmwo:
Mea culpa. Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa.

>83 jillmwo: But us peons never dine with the rich and famous!

>77 jillmwo: The question I have for you is whether he really captured for you (someone really familiar with the Chalet-school stories) the feel of those other books.

He definitely captured the ethos of the classic school story, in the importance of friendship, loyalty to the school, the mischievous nature of Middles, and the awe of Prefects (far more intimidating than Staff!). He took the familiar tropes and used them in original ways, especially by combining them with those of Burroughs' Mars. There were a few Easter eggs that I spotted, both for CS readers and SF fans, but his hommage was more to the whole genre than to a specific series of school stories (although he explicitly cites Brent-Dyer and the Chalet School as the reason for his love of the genre).

>84 pgmcc: If you're going to have breakfast with famous people, enquiring minds want to know.

>85 Karlstar: Some of the most useful diaries of history have been written by the so-called peons. If you're having breakfast with ordinary folks, enquiring minds want to know that as well.

>86 Sakerfalcon: I did read the acknowledgements page at the end of Three Twins at the Crater School which did indicate that he had more than a passing familiarity with the series. I love your summation of "the importance of friendship, loyalty to the school, the mischievous nature of Middles, and the awe of Prefects" and I'm actually quite sorry that my all too American childhood kept me from encountering this kind of book at an appropriate age.

The holiday catalog from the Folio Society arrived in the day's mail so I spent some portion of the lunch hour, inhaling the smell of ink on good glossy paper. (No money has changed hands as yet.)

However, I have bounced back and forth in my reading between Mansfield Park and Jarrettsville. The latter is literary fiction having to do with the American Civil War and where the first chapter shows a woman shooting a man at close range. There have also been a few specific details included about the hygiene and medical care of the period that show solid research but which make the story a bit too vivid. Not soothing.

Reading Mansfield Park where there is no longer suspense over the course of events in the novel has led to somewhat less distressing meditations about mental images held in memory (tv adaptations, illustrations used in volumes, etc.). My imagination draws from the 1983 BBC adaptation and the more recent 1999 film made by Patricia Rozema and frankly my brain frequently muddles the two together.

In terms of insights gained from even a rapid re-read, I'm a bit slow on the uptake perhaps (and maybe I've thought this in passing before), but it strikes me that Edmund is the character whose choices and growth should have made him Austen's protagonist rather than Fanny. At the same time, Austen never wrote extensively from within the psyche of a male character. Fanny's is the point of view that Austen instead adopted in telling her story in MP and making her point.

But Edmund's life is being settled throughout the novel -- he disappears for a time from the action because he is going through the formal ordination and at the same time, he is also thinking of marriage. Both circumstances will determine his future. Mary Crawford with her 20,000 might well have solidified Edmund's future financial security in a desirable fashion -- much more so than the money earned from the two livings his father might have in his gift (one of which he has to wait to assume). At the same time, Edmund wasn't prepared (or particularly well-suited) to being a "pulpit personality" in the sort of London environment where Mary would have chosen to see him in terms of professional preferment.

>88 jillmwo: I've always viewed Fanny as the rock against which the various characters in the story are dashed in the stormy ocean of their lives (if you'll forgive the overwrought imagery.) Do they destroy themselves, or learn how to better manage their craft? Edmund eventually figures it out; Henry and others, including Mrs. Norris, founder.

>89 Marissa_Doyle:. I'm enjoying your overwrought imagery. While I was thinking of it more as Fanny being an allegorical stand-in for the authentic goodness of the C of E in the social order and Mary being the allegorical stand-in for more "flexible" attitudes of High Society -- those who seek greater latitude in the established social order even as they flout moral practices. So two marble statues, as it were, with Edmund required to choose between the two.

I absolutely accept your idea of Fanny as the rock.

>87 jillmwo:
In relation to your wanting to know about breakfast with ordinary people, I had breakfast with my wife this morning. Well, actually, she is quite extraordinary. Anyway, we had ham sandwiches in our ferry cabin and protein bars, all washed down with a cup of tea for me and coffee for my wife.
I anticipate having breakfast with her tomorrow morning in our holiday accommodation.

>91 pgmcc: It is good that you recognize the wonderful qualities of your spouse. (Jill waves at Catriona!) But I feel confident that you've had more than a single breakfast on the ferry since Thursday...

I have mentioned more than once here on LT how enjoyable I have found Novel Houses: Twenty Famous Fictional Dwellings to be. The author uses that organizational structure to amplify interest in works by du Maurier, Peake, Austen, Tolkien, Woolf and others. Each chapter is an essay focusing on a domestic structure appearing in a specific well-known novel. On one level, it’s a form of literary criticism mixed with salesmanship for the original works. The author, Christina Hardyment, had to do a significant amount of research to pull it off (although she did have the opportunity to draw from the unique holdings of the Bodleian collection). Working with the staff of the Bodelian undoubtedly meant she had a certain amount of leverage in gaining rights and permissions to reproduce artwork or photos held in collections.

A tad less high-brow but one requiring an equal amount of research is a book entitled Agatha Christie, She Watched. This too is a bit of a mix – the author has viewed and written up television and film adaptations of Christie’s novels, made across a period of roughly 80 years.

Her organization of the various film and television productions falls into the following sections:
1. Marple
2. Poirot
3. Tommy and Tuppence
4. And Then There Were None
5. The Rest of the Christies
6. Agatha, the Star

Each of the 204 entries gets a write-up of several pages. Those entries consist of the following:

Title (Year of Production)
Single sentence summarizing the story
Photo indicative of the production

Rating:
Fidelity to Text (1-5, five being the highest)
Quality of the production (1-5, five being the highest)
Note:That these are indicated by a symbol indicative of the murder method (that is, 4-½ poisoned cocktails, etc.)

A two- or three-page review follows, summarizing (without spoilers) the general set up of the plot and how the adaptation differs from the original work. The author does a basic analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of each production written in a very light tone.

Following that segment, there is a listing of more general Information one might want to know:
--Based on (the title of Christie’s original work)
--Run Time
--Available with Subtitles Y/N (she covers films made in English, French, Italian and Japanese)
--Writer
--Director
--Full Cast List
--Film Locations
--Music

The thing about both books is that it takes a tremendous commitment to give over your waking hours to a project of this type.(I’m somewhat intimidated.)

First of all you have to consider the material available to you in your own working library as well as what may be available through your local library. Tracking down and viewing every single one. Re-reading each novel to see where changes were made by a scriptwriter and determining whether such changes improved or detracted from Christie’s original work. Writing each one up on a deadline. Just to watch that range of adaptations of Christie represents a significant investment of time (Non-stop, viewed back-to-back-back, it would be roughly about two weeks, but who can do this kind of project in non-stop viewing mode?). How do you take on a project like that without ultimately thinking to yourself that by the time it is over you’ll never want to look at another piece of mystery fiction or program again? Not only does it require a certain passion for the topic, but it also means that you have to consider what information is required to make the work useful to readers. In this case, the compiler had to identify available material, consider the necessary details that would need to be compiled on cast members and shooting locations.

The Agatha Christie, She Watched is from a small independent press, founded by a married couple. One has to give it a thumbs up on that basis alone, but Novel Houses emerged from the Bodleian which has far more resources at its disposal. The production values of the physical copies reflect that difference. (It’s noteworthy that there’s no ebook or paperback version of the Novel Houses, but there is both an ebook and a paperback of the Christie title. That too says something about the anticipated audience make-up in the US and UK markets.)

Both are worthwhile publications and it's hard to gauge which will have the longer shelf life. Based on my own usage patterns, I will keep the physical Bodleian production on my shelf, but I feel as if I can live with the Christie title in just the Kindle format.

And as a bit of a non-sequitur, I just was looking at older threads here in the Pub. It would appear that 10 years ago, I treated you all to an extended discussion of Mansfield Park and other Austen titles until pgmcc and MrsLee dragged me into reading Wyrd Sisters. For the record, I did enjoy the Pratchett. However, it does appear that I circle back round to Austen with some regularity.

The proof is here (https://www.librarything.com/topic/157706). Thank you all for being around for so many years!

>94 jillmwo: Well, Wyrd Sisters is my favorite Pratchett, so they did not lead you astray. Funny, I listened to it exactly 10 years ago as well. I checked my thread, and I was egged on not just by the two culprits you mentioned, but by several others as well. :o) In fact they talked me into not trying to do the Discworld books in order but to skip ahead and do all of the Witches books instead. Excellent advice.

>95 clamairy: & >94 jillmwo:
Wyrd Sisters was my first Pratchett. I was following advice to read it first and then tge other witches books. I really enjoyed Wyrd Sisters and have yet read the other witches books.

>94 jillmwo: I for one, am always happy to lead people astray.

>96 pgmcc: October is a great month to try Carpe Jugulum (vampires and witches)or Maskerade (Phantom of the Opera). I'm just saying.

Agreed. Maskerade is the only other witches book I gave 5 stars to, besides Wyrd Sisters.

Sorry, Jill. I think you wanted to talk about Mansfield Park. I believe this is the only Austen that I have watch as a movie or miniseries. Do you have a suitable suggestion?

>97 MrsLee:
I believe that may be in the house. The issue is that I will be in France until early November. I am sure it will still be fun in November.

>97 MrsLee: and >98 clamairy: I am apparently open to being led astray and /or led down good paths by the two of you as now a copy of Maskerade is en route. clamairy giving it five stars felt like a bit of a shove at my back as did the fact that the marketing materials indicated the presence of Granny Weatherwax as a prominent presence in the story.

I'm not entirely wedded to Mansfield Park at the moment. However, clam, let me say this -- if you are only interested in an adaptation (as opposed to reading the book), avoid at all costs the 2007 adaptation with Billie Piper. It barely had a nodding acquaintance with anything Jane Austen wrote and Piper wasn't at all the correct physical .

Personally, I just watched the 1983 version which is very, very faithful to the book and which has a number of excellent actors in the cast (Anna Massey for one). However, being a TV mini-series, it does move at a very sedate pace across the eight episodes. The 1999 version of Mansfield Park was not Jane Austen either; but it was an interesting approach with Frances O'Connor in the lead role, and it was far shorter in length.

In terms of the book about the Agatha Christie adaptations, I noted it primarily because I realized how much hard work it would have demanded of the author. I could write a book at some point, but the question would seem to be whether I have the necessary depth of commitment. (I'm back to the idea of composing a book of introductions to a variety of classics. Without the support of the Bodleian Library at my back.)

>99 pgmcc: Having a library on two continents might well be an inconvenience. It would also seem to indicate a highly profitable, a highly successful background as an international operative. Personally, I can only manage one library on a single continent.

>100 jillmwo: I have already read it, and somewhat recently. (I believe it was in 2018.) I didn't love it, and I keep wondering if I was missing something. I will see which adaptations are available to stream, and avoid the terrible one you mentioned.

>100 jillmwo:
I do not discuss client business.

>100 jillmwo: I'm back to the idea of composing a book of introductions to a variety of classics: I would read that.

I can confirm that having a library on two continents is an inconvenience.

>93 jillmwo: I need to move Novel houses up the TBR pile!

I got a friend hooked on Terry Pratchett by giving her Wyrd Sisters. She loves Shakespeare and this hit the spot for her.

A follow up to >98 clamairy:. I think Austen’s point was that there was a social gain or benefit – something – to be gained by putting an emphasis on authenticity in human relations and Fanny is the only one of the family at Mansfield who is capable of being authentic. From the historical perspective of Austen's time, that emphasis on building honest, truthful relations was one that would most commonly be inculcated by the clergy. That assumes that the clergy themselves are behaving authentically. A second son who enters the Church solely because it’s easier than joining the Navy wouldn’t really be any good in imparting that lesson to his parishioners. One can make a claim that Edmund should be the protagonist in MP rather than Fanny, because it is Edmund who needs to learn that lesson. Fanny knows who she is and what it is she wants and she won't be lured into an inauthentic marriage w/ Henry Crawford (who doesn't seem to have that same inner sense of holding out for what is right for HIM as an individual.)

Note that Edmund has already indicated that he chose the Church. He wasn’t being forced into it as a second choice. Edmund is attracted to Mary but she’ll want to go to London and have him be a more public figure in the Church so as not to lose her social position. A second practical value of marriage to Mary would be that she actually has money (well beyond what Edmund will have from the smaller living at Thornton Lacey). The fear is that Edmund would be distracted from what he believes is best in terms of his own skills and contribution to the Church. If he were to adopt a more worldly view of what would be advisable as a choice, he would be violating his own internal beliefs. Remember as well that Mary tells Fanny at one point that if Tom were to die, that would be just as well because that would mean that Edmund would inherit the title. (She'd like that as being in keeping with her own preferred social status, but Edmund might not. This is the point that the 1999 Patricia Rozema adaption gets absolutely right in delivering to the viewer.)

Fanny is insecure, overly-anxious, inclined to shrink into herself. But she's a dependent on the family at MP, just as Aunt Norris is. But being a dependent doesn't mean she has to stop behaving according to those specific principles that she sees as being appropriate. She remains authentic to those principles. Aunt Norris fails in authenticity because she pretends to be managing everything that goes on around her when nobody really seeks her interference or views. And she always wants other people to do the work. Fanny all too frequently ends up doing it instead.

See what happens, clamairy, when you poke me about Austen? I really do see MP as being one of her best. People think it's about the romantic conflict over Edmund. Will Fanny get him or not? That's not Austen's point; Austen thought it was more important that those who entered the Church as a profession be authentic in their belief because that was the real need in that particular role.

>89 Marissa_Doyle: Er, Mrs. Norris? (Whispering) Forgive me, I hardly dare say this in present company, but I haven't read much Jane Austen, and it's been decades since I read any. Are we looking at the namesake of Filch's cat?

>105 jillmwo: How many times have you read it? LOL Even if I had had your detailed breakdown ahead of time I doubt I would have formed any emotional attachment for any of the characters in the book. Fanny had no chutzpah. I realize she was in a somewhat of a precarious situation at MP but I couldn't warm up to her much. Don't hate me.

>107 clamairy: What is it that the lead character says in Clueless? As if!!! Of course, I'm not going to hate you. I am fully cognizant of the idea that I might be a tad obsessive over Austen. And quite honestly, I am glad I didn't try MP until I was in my '40's or thereabouts. I am quite sure it took me 3 tries or so before I really got into the swim of it.

>106 Meredy: Mrs. Norris (or Aunt Norris) is a selfish and insensitive woman who deprives Fanny of every comfort and consideration while imposing any troublesome task or errand on her. (Yes, she's the namesake of Filch's cat. And just as unpleasant as the cat.) That said, in any film adaptations, she'd be the most fun to play.

>108 jillmwo: Thanks! All or nearly all of Rowling's character names appear to carry some sort of significance, and "Mrs. Norris" seemed very specific, but I had no clue to the source.

Does the Austen character get her comeuppance in the end?

>109 Meredy: More or less. She ends up going into a sort of exile, living with the daughter who has run away from her husband with Henry Crawford and completely disgraced herself.

I was once not very fond of Mansfield Park, but reading Paula Byrne's discussion of it in The Real Jane Austen: A Life in Small Things gave me a different perspective on it, and it now occupies the space beside Persuasion and Pride and Prejudice in my heart.

>105 jillmwo: This is a great analysis. MP is one of my favourite Austens. I love the theatrical scenes and what they show us about the characters. Because Fanny effaces herself so much she is the perfect observer of the shenanigans around her.

>110 Marissa_Doyle: I have that biography on my Kindle. Is it as good as Claire Tomalin's book? I cried like a baby when I finished that one.

>112 clamairy: It's less a biography of Jane than it is a biography of her time and place and the contexts of the books. I found it absorbing.

Three out of twelve jack-o-lanterns thus far in the hunt. (Although my excuse is that I haven't been working on it for very long...)

>114 jillmwo: Thanks for the head's up, I had not seen any notification for the hunt yet.

>114 jillmwo: I didn't see the announcement either, thank you!

I've been reading Maskerade and my general mood has lightened considerably as a result. Meanwhile, I've achieved eight out of twelve jack-o-lanterns. The ones left at this point are the really hard ones.

>117 jillmwo: There were a couple of clues I thought I knew the answer to, but couldn't navigate to the right place in the site. I'm fine the 7 I found on the first try. I even found one of Tim's!

>118 MrsLee: Well, you're doing better than I, given that I haven't gotten any of Tim's clues as yet. Still working on 6, 7, 9 and 12.

I found all twelve, but I did Google keywords for the ones I didn't know, including 7 and 12.

>119 jillmwo: Spoilering in case people don't want clues!

For 6, the answer isn't usually associated with Halloween, and Tim's rhyme plays off a well-known verse by the answer.

For 9, consider this year's badge

>118 MrsLee: Try refreshing the page. For a couple of the clues, I was sure I was on the right page but wasn't getting the jack-o-lantern until I pressed F5 and - voila! Punkin' achieved!

>121 ScoLgo: I was hunting on my phone. I don't know how to refresh a page on my phone? I don't really care, I answered them to my own satisfaction. :D Since I get a badge I'm happy.

>122 MrsLee: On my LG/android phone, swiping down refreshes the view. Not sure if it's the same on other brands/platforms, (iPhone, etc).

But yeah, overall the Halloween Hunt is probably not all that important... ;)